Grade A Fire Alarm power supply

[Tom Sutton]

And who would win in a fight, BS or Lacors ??!

David you can add the DCLG Sleeping guide which on page 4 includes "the common areas of houses in multiple occupation (HMO);" the only saving grace is it's recommendations on fire alarms are similar to the Lacors.

[tmprojects]

where is the 'don't know' vote button! there's always a 'don't know' vote

[David Rooney]

And who would win in a fight, BS or Lacors ??!

David you can add the DCLG Sleeping guide which on page 4 includes "the common areas of houses in multiple occupation (HMO);" the only saving grace is it's recommendations on fire alarms are similar to the Lacors.

So if i were approached by a landlord of an HMO and I installed a grade D system and quoted Lacors, what certificate would I use ?

And then if a local authority questioned the logic and insisted on a grade A 5839 system who would be in the right ?

[Tom Sutton]

 1. If I were approached by a landlord of an HMO and I installed a grade D system and quoted Lacors, what certificate would I use ?

 2. If a local authority questioned the logic and insisted on a grade A 5839 system who would be in the right ?

1. I guess you would use the certification for a grade D system as recommended in clause 23.3 in BS 5839-6:2004.

2. It would be open to discussion/argument. The landlord has to apply for a Licence (HMO) to the local authority and they would refuse it, consequently the landlord would have to appeal.

The applicant or any relevant person may appeal to a residential property tribunal within 28 days against a decision to refuse to grant a licence or against any terms of the licence. An appeal may also be lodged against any decision to vary or revoke a licence, or a refusal to vary or revoke a licence.

[Midland Retty]

Hi David

You normally find that Grade A systems are recommended (or required) in HMOs with three or more storeys.

In HMOs with two storeys or less a Grade D is normally accepted.

Would the LHA refuse you a license if you had say a Grade D systems installed in a three storey property instead of a Grade A? It all depends on the size of the property and the number of people residing therein.

Ive known some LHAs accept a Grade D in three storey victorian terrace where there were 6 persons residing, but not allow it in a three storey sprawling converted vicarage where the layout, and size of the property was much bigger and complex, and had 8 residents stayingthere. So it all depends.

[David Rooney]

Thanks men...... it's always an interesting learning curve........   

[Clevelandfire 3]

Hi David

You normally find that Grade A systems are recommended (or required) in HMOs with three or more storeys.

In HMOs with two storeys or less a Grade D is normally accepted.

Would the LHA refuse you a license if you had say a Grade D systems installed in a three storey property instead of a Grade A? It all depends on the size of the property and the number of people residing therein.

Ive known some LHAs accept a Grade D in three storey victorian terrace where there were 6 persons residing, but not allow it in a three storey sprawling converted vicarage where the layout, and size of the property was much bigger and complex, and had 8 residents stayingthere. So it all depends.

Why is that Midland?

[Midland Retty]

Look at BS 5839 Part 6 - it describes in great detail the difference between a Grade A and Grade D system, and why those different grades are required in HMOs, dependent on the size and occupancy of the property.

Whilst all HMOs must be protected by automatic fire detection, human beings often detect fire before automatic detection has been activated. So we need to consider how we manually raise the alarm prior to detector activation in HMOs.

So a small two storey HMO may only need a Grade D system, because the shout of fire could be enough as a means of manually raising the alarm prior to automatic detection being activated. In a three storey property the shout of fire as manual means of raising the alarm is unlikely to be heard - hence the need for a Grade A system incorporating manual call points

But again it comes down to risk assesment, because I could have a very large two storey property where the shout of fire might not be heard in all habitable areas, and therefore I may need to consider the installation of a Grade A system.

The control and indicating equipment aspect of a Grade A system is there for several reasons. The bigger or more complex the premises gets it follows that there is a greater need for system reliability and the ability to monitor faults. Also the CIE provides power to components such as MCPs and Fire Detectors. It also allows the fire and rescue service to locate the point of activation (whether that be a zone, or an actual detector head)

[Clevelandfire 3]

Ok thanks Midland