New UKAS accredited scheme for Fire Risk Assessors

[Midland Retty]

and 6 out of 7 are not happy.  They need a 3rd party scheme to belong to!

Good ideas - I'll set one up - membership to the scheme will only be £400 per person... roll up my little Dwarf chums

[PackMaCan]

IFC have a new UKAS accredited TPC scheme for FRA companies http://www.ifccertification.com/fire-risk-assessment.html

[kurnal]

Quote from the IFC website in respect of the benefits of their scheme

" It gives you a head start when more legislation comes in for FRAs."

Do they know something we dont?

I have looked but have not found any details of the basis for their charges and costs. Have I missed something?

[colin todd]

The three risk categories are a load of complete tosh, suggesting no input from the fire risk assessment industry as BAFE SP 205 received. Nevertheless, they only need two successful applicants and they will have 100% more certificated firms than Warrington have managed in the years their scheme has been running. They will have to go some though to catch up with BAFE SP 205 and its 14 certificated firms. Good to see that they assess against PAS 79 though. Well done that certification body!

[wee brian]

The three risk catergories thing is exactly what the competency council decided not to do! I can't see why they would want to go in the opposite direction to the rest of the industry.

[colin todd]

The IFE also have considered this approach on various occasions and always rejected it.  Maybe its meant to be product differentiation, but I cant see it working or assessors limiting themselves (or stretching themsleves).

[Golden]

I've just had a surveillance visit letter come through (SP205-1) so thought I'd ask who considers this scheme to be worthwhile and if anyone has seen any work come from going through the process? Its not necessarily the cost that's making me doubt the validity of the scheme but the time for preparation, visits, etc. for a small company is disproportionate.

Any thoughts?

[kurnal]

I have committed our company to achieve TPC by the end of 2014 but have been holding back to see how the system fared, to learn from the experience of others, the relative performance of the various certification bodies and above all the level of interest in the schemes in the market place.  There are two tender invitations on my desk at the moment -one a large local authority and one NHS and neither mentions company TPC at all though one of them does ask for assessors to be members of the personal accreditation schemes listed by the competency council.

Unless Government backs company TPC with publicity and leads by example it will be a long and stoney road for the CBs.

[AnthonyB]

Unless Government backs company TPC with publicity and leads by example it will be a long and stoney road for the CBs.

I had a conversation along very similar themes with BAFE at Firex- unless they (& Government) push the scheme with the end users who actually commission the FRAs, it will not have the impact it needs

[colin todd]

Silver, BAFE SP 205 is the biz and it only asks for what you should be doing anyway, so if you are running a business (however small) professionally it should be no problem.  We have got one large job in which all the competitors were selected specifically from the BAFE list, so of course the tender document did not mention BAFE cos they didnt need to.  By definition, many people who keep repeating that they never see any tenders asking for it are dead right. If they dont have the certification, they will keep not seeing the tenders.

The same happens with fire alarm companies. They are always winging that they never see tenders asking for it. They will certainly never see any tenders that we manage because the companies selected to tender are pre selected on the basis of their listing.

[colin todd]

Big Al, 2014? For goodness sake what changes do you need to make to your company that it will take you that long to get it into shape???

Anyway, I was rather hoping you would be retired and walking on the Derbyshire Dales, recounting all your old fire brigade stories to fellow walkers long before that.

[kurnal]

Hi Colin
No imminent retirement as I am, by a number of years, your junior and so will probably retire a few years after you. But when you fancy a stroll in the beautiful Peak District I would be delighted to show you round and have a few routes particularly suited to a bath chair. 

Since you ask there is one particular area that we do need to change in respect of BAFE SP205. I do not currently keep the contemporaneous notes and sketches made during assessments and have no intention of doing so for as long as possible. Yes we could scan them in but what possible benefit does keeping them bring? If we get it wrong the final authorized risk assessment document as presented to the client will be definitive and the reference point against which it can be measured is the assessed building plus hindsight. What the assessor scribbled on his notes is irrelevant (and often semi illegible). That is one battle I have to fight and will lose.
No my main reason for holding back is caution, the relationship with a CB is very important and long term and I am waiting to find best match CB for me.   I favour being assessed by a fire risk assessor trained in audit rather than an auditor trained in risk assessment. One thing is sure, we will meet the deadline set by the FIA.

[colin todd]

Big Al, you are totally wrong in the value you attribute to contemperaneous notes. If it all goes pear shaped, these can be of huge value. We once saved one of our insurance underwriters an astronomic multi million pound claim, because it was clear from the notes that information contained in our report was based on misinformation provided by a representative of the Insured. The proof that, on the balance of probablities, that misinformation had been provided was really obvious from the notes made at the time of the site visit. it was clear that they were taken at the time of a formal meeting prior to the inspection of the building.

Who audits you should make no difference if you have done it all right.

[AnthonyB]

The notes requirement was a bit of a bind as we had gone to great length to abandon keeping mountains of paper, and the prospect of now retaining a LOT of paper (we are a lot bigger since I started with the firm 15 years ago) was not relished, however scanning and storing electronically is our answer.

I can see why the requirement is there - in another law associated field I work in all paperwork right down to notebooks is retained even though process is largely carried out using a computer based system

[longjohn]

Very good video starring CT as Richard Gere on  http://www.ifsecglobal.com/author.asp?section_id=414