Thomas Glover 2kg CO2 Extinguishers & 26/4/13 Update - Now on Chubb CO2's

[DavyFire]

Hi,
   Talking to a local fire extinguisher supplier today who gets supplies from TG Firepower. Apparently they have moved production to Poland recently. He received an order in the last week of the new extinguishers. when we checked one of the 9L waters I noticed a new delivery hose assembly. It has a larger diameter threaded connection than previously. That was the beauty of working with Firepower extinguishers, most of the spares were interchangeable across the range. Not any more. you will now require hoses for the old range and for the new range including O rings of differing sizes. The new hose looks cheap and cheerful!!

[lancsfirepro]

Hi,
   Talking to a local fire extinguisher supplier today who gets supplies from TG Firepower. Apparently they have moved production to Poland recently. He received an order in the last week of the new extinguishers. when we checked one of the 9L waters I noticed a new delivery hose assembly. It has a larger diameter threaded connection than previously. That was the beauty of working with Firepower extinguishers, most of the spares were interchangeable across the range. Not any more. you will now require hoses for the old range and for the new range including O rings of differing sizes. The new hose looks cheap and cheerful!!

Yeah the new ones are made at UTC in Poland.  Where the Gloria stuff is made.  http://www.kiddeglobal.com/utcfs/Templates/Pages/Template-79/0,11708,pageId%3D27317%26siteId%3D70,00.html

[AnthonyB]

Hi,
   Talking to a local fire extinguisher supplier today who gets supplies from TG Firepower. Apparently they have moved production to Poland recently. He received an order in the last week of the new extinguishers. when we checked one of the 9L waters I noticed a new delivery hose assembly. It has a larger diameter threaded connection than previously. That was the beauty of working with Firepower extinguishers, most of the spares were interchangeable across the range. Not any more. you will now require hoses for the old range and for the new range including O rings of differing sizes. The new hose looks cheap and cheerful!!

The change is because the Firepower units now appear to use Gloria hoses and nozzles (after all it's their factory), the Chubb FX range uses a lot of Gloria tooling for components, the plastic shrouding on the valves being used to allow the use of the new O clip .

The question is,is it better than the Chinese Firepower models?

[lancsfirepro]

They're using a different cylinder now also - this one has a smaller diameter.  Also, I believe the headcap o-rings are going to be a different size.  I think I was given some of the newer o-rings and they're much thinner than the old ones.  Use them on an older FirePower and the valve shoulder hits the top of the cylinder neck before the o-ring seals. 

[AnthonyB]

I've seen one up close today and everything is Gloria tooling, can, base, hose & nozzle, handles, the only different thing seems to be the valve.

[lancsfirepro]

And so it continues, now on PJ Fire kit!  Found 3 like this today on a fire risk assessment.  Date stamped: 2011/10.  Worryingly, they were serviced in November 2011 by a BAFE registered company (name omitted to protect the guilty!)  Tut tut.

[AnthonyB]

Have you told PJ Fire - if no-one knows they can't look into it. As they refurb and assemble new just down the road from me rather than the other side of the world it's easier for them to deal with it.

Found another dodgy Jactone CO2 last week as empty as it could be and still sealed.

Not the best time for CO2's really!

[lancsfirepro]

Have you told PJ Fire

Why didn't I think of that?! Nope, I've informed the FIA. They have procedures in place (so they tell me) to contact the manufacturer and alert their members. Let's see if that happens.... hasn't happened yet with the Chubb model I reported. 

[TFEM]

I'm noticing this more and more on CO2's these days but as yet, haven't had one that's lost any weight.
Is it a new type of lubricant the manufacturers/assemblers are using, are they being slapdash in how they apply it?
Also seen it on JSP units.
John

[lancsfirepro]

From what I've been told, it's to do with the wrong type of o-ring used.  Apparently the CO2 is supposed to in some way attack or permeate the o-ring and cause it to leak out.  It's usually a tiny leak but you can't really leave an extinguisher in service with a known leak because you don't know whether it's going to get worse.  I didn't notice any oily marks on the extinguishers when they were new; it seems they appear over time and therefore allow you to see the leak clearly.

[TFEM]

So are you withdrawing all of these from service, even though they haven't lost weight, and getting replacements from the manufacturer?

John

[lancsfirepro]

You don't consider visible signs of leaks a reason to remove them from service?  As far as I know, the leak could have just started a few hours before I turned up to do the service - you have no way of knowing if it'll be empty in a few days.  This is not something you can just say, "oh well, as of today, it hasn't lost more than 10% of the contents so I'll let it go until next year".  A visible leak is a defect in a piece of potentially life saving equipment and I want to sleep at night thank you.
Any TG cans we find on our service visits are removed from service and replaced under manufacturer's warranty at no cost to the customer.
Any leaking extinguishers spotted at a fire risk assessment are brought to the attention of the site staff so they can arrange their service company to swap them over.

[TFEM]

Gareth, my question is....are the manufacturers replacing them?

If the manufacturers are happy to replace them, then they are admitting a problem exists and I would be happy to remove them from service. But isn't an annual service a bit like an MOT.....OK on the day? If it actually hasn't lost weight and the manufacturer won't admit a problem, how can we legitimately condemn them?

And how much "gunk show" will the manufacturers accept as a problem?

I'm not saying you're wrong......I just want to be right!!!!

John

[AnthonyB]

You legitimately condemn them as you have seen a defect that you know will lead to leakage and non function, ignoring it would be negligent, imagine what it would look like in court! It's a defect on a pressure bearing part that could cause a uncontrolled release of pressure

At the very least if you dare not remove it mark the known issue on the service label and report warning that you can't guarantee the extinguisher will remain charged and put the onus on the customer.

[lancsfirepro]

Thomas Glover are issuing replacements FOC via one of the suppliers we use; they are well aware of the issue.
I have heard nothing about the Chubb one - the client asked me to remove it from site as it was a spare.
The FIA have put me in touch with PJ Fire and I am in dialogue with them at the moment.  All seems positive to indicate that they are keen to deal with the situation.  I'll keep you posted.