Author Topic: Misleading FRA's  (Read 42003 times)

Offline longjohn

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Re: Misleading FRA's
« Reply #75 on: November 26, 2013, 10:16:00 AM »
Do what my employers are doing, tying in with a local authority fire service to 'approve' my individual risk assessments. Its been a long process for them, started before I joined them in June this year, but seems to be a sensible approach in the long run. They inspected some sample FRA's recently completed by myself, and, apart for some wording changes, were generally happy with the content. I have used the bum basic PAS-79 2012 version, with very few changes apart from a few corporate logos; their view was, as its the 'industry standard' form, they would be happy to back it.
Tin hat on!!
 ;D
I'm afraid I couldn't do that with one local authority I deal with, they are so anti consultant they have sent a letter to one RP stating quite clearly they do not deal with consultants!

Midland Retty

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Re: Misleading FRA's
« Reply #76 on: November 28, 2013, 05:58:59 PM »
Do what my employers are doing, tying in with a local authority fire service to 'approve' my individual risk assessments. Its been a long process for them, started before I joined them in June this year, but seems to be a sensible approach in the long run. They inspected some sample FRA's recently completed by myself, and, apart for some wording changes, were generally happy with the content. I have used the bum basic PAS-79 2012 version, with very few changes apart from a few corporate logos; their view was, as its the 'industry standard' form, they would be happy to back it.
Tin hat on!!
 ;D
I'm afraid I couldn't do that with one local authority I deal with, they are so anti consultant they have sent a letter to one RP stating quite clearly they do not deal with consultants!

Ooo that's very naughty - if of course it's true... I'd advise your client to politely ask the Fire Authority in question why they won't deal with consultants and then see what response they get back - no fire authority (as you know) can say they won't deal with consultants (and if they have they really done so) they need to be named and shamed and written to.... do address the letter to the Chief of the brigade the Chair of the fire authority, and local MP - I'm sure that will get a big reaction. BIGGG reaction.  ;)

« Last Edit: November 28, 2013, 06:02:16 PM by Just Midders »

Offline colin todd

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Re: Misleading FRA's
« Reply #77 on: December 01, 2013, 03:15:53 PM »
Back in the 1980s, I was engaged in a research project for the Department of Health on alarm receiving centres.  We asked for information from all F&RS in the UK. Nothing controversial, just routine stuff that, today, you would get easily under the FOI.

The then CFOA lead on fire safety. a chief officer, met with us and assured us of all assistance.  Strangely while some F&RS were extremely helpful, we could not get anything out of others in England.  Then my good friends in the then Highlands and Islands F&RS explained why.  The CFOA **** (synonym for gentleman deleted) we met with had allegedly written to all F&RS telling them not to cooperate.  H&I said they would be ignoring CFOA advice as did many other of our chums in the F&RS.  One refused point blank to help because (and I quote) they were not pleased with the NHS as they refused to use the (subsequently discredited) Harwell smoke detector tester.  Humberside's comms officer said that it was a uniformed service and he had to do as he was told and would not be cooperating.  He also said there was no point in talking to the CFO as (and I quote) his chief officer did not talk to consultants.  An ACO somewhere, when I tried to reason with him that we were all on the same side, said we were not, as I (and I quote) made money out of fire safety.  I asked whether the job of ACO was an honorary post for which he did not receive a big fat salary and whether his kids ate from soup kitchens, at which point he said he was terminating the call.

I have never fully trusted CFOA or chief fire officers in England since.  It is a principal that I feel has stood me in good stead.

As it happens despite the best efforts of some F&RS to be obstructive, we got all we required and our recommendations for ARC response times are incorproated in British and European standards today, so it was ground breaking stuff, funded by the Department of Health.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2013, 01:22:54 PM by colin todd »
Colin Todd, C S Todd & Associates

Offline longjohn

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Re: Misleading FRA's
« Reply #78 on: December 05, 2013, 11:45:56 AM »
They will Midders, I'm just biding my time at the moment

Midland Retty

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Re: Misleading FRA's
« Reply #79 on: December 05, 2013, 12:48:09 PM »
Back in the 1908s, I was engaged in a research project for the Department of Health

Blimey Sir Col...1908?? I knew you were not in the first throws of spring, but I didn't think you were that old

[/Quote]

I have never fully trusted CFOA or chief fire officers in England since.  It is a principal that I feel has stood me in good stead.

Can't say I blame you, if the type of behaviour you mentioned went on.

Offline colin todd

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Re: Misleading FRA's
« Reply #80 on: December 12, 2013, 01:25:42 PM »
Well, Retters, perhaps we live in different times today (but perhaps we do not). Anyhow, we Scots are not big on forgiving or forgetting.  If we can still remember Culloden, we can still remember the two faced nature of some of the higher echelons of the fire and rescue service in England. Is it not time you left the FRS and got a proper job anyway.
Colin Todd, C S Todd & Associates

Offline Mike Buckley

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Re: Misleading FRA's
« Reply #81 on: December 12, 2013, 04:10:27 PM »
Yes, I remember Culloden, if I recall correctly wasn't it a Scottish army being defeated by a Scottish and English army? Wasn't there something about the various scots having to wear different coloured cockades in their bonnets so they could tell which side they were on?
The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to those who think they've found it.

Offline colin todd

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Re: Misleading FRA's
« Reply #82 on: December 12, 2013, 06:19:45 PM »
Not bad at all, Michael!!  Very close to the truth.
Colin Todd, C S Todd & Associates

Offline longjohn

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Re: Misleading FRA's
« Reply #83 on: December 19, 2013, 09:53:28 AM »
Well here is an extract from the particular fire authority concerned when they communicated with an RP

'The Fire Authorities Enforcement Team's guidance for Fire Protection Officers is not to communicate with Professional Fire Risk Assessors
with regards site specific queries.

However Fire Risk Assessors can contact the Fire Authority's Fire Protection Support Team for general guidance on Fire Risk Assessments'.


So how many of us need 'general guidance' from them then?

Offline nearlythere

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Re: Misleading FRA's
« Reply #84 on: December 19, 2013, 10:09:06 AM »
Hi LJ.
Check your messages.
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.