Call point testing in flats

[William 29]

Quick question for some opinions:

Housing provider has large numbers of flats and sheltered schemes, they are sending someone out to them all every week to test the call points (as per the BS). The fire alarm contractor does maintenance visits on all premises types 4 times per year (2 visit too many in some cases I know) but what if they tested the call points on these visits at the same time? i.e. tested all or a quarter of the call points so that over the year the same objective is achieved. It cost around £50k a year for them to test the call points weekly internally.

I cant see an issue?

Thanks

[Tom Sutton]

I understand the purpose of the weekly test is to ensure the system will work if called upon, that's why it is weekly and not principally to test the MCP, however that is also achieved over a period of time. 

[AnthonyB]

3 months with a system potentially not able to receive a signal from a device and activate all the sounders is a long time in sleeping risk....

Make the saving (or some of it) by knocking the service visits down to 2 if appropriate for the system.

Do they not have to do weekly inspections of the communal parts anyway? If so they should simply move the testing in house and train their own staff to do it

[William 29]

The in house staff already test the call points weekly, that's the issue. My understanding was the main purpose of the test was to check that the MCP operates and the alarm is audible? However you wouldn't be able to check this in the flat on every occasion. They would make attempts to do this when the contractor visits 4 times a year.

I know this goes against the BS but given we are talking 100's of blocks, weekly testing would seem an unnecessary burden? The systems are being maintained (Article 17) effectively, and in many cases over what the BS requires, any faults are logged and actioned. I would argue that is reasonable compensation?

[William 29]

Could the RP fully comply with this anyway in the case of flats?


44.2 Recommendations for weekly testing by the user

When testing the fire detection and fire alarm system, there may be a need to isolate ancillary outputs.

The following recommendations apply.
a) Every week, a manual call point should be operated during normal working hours. It should be confirmed that the control equipment is capable of processing a fire alarm signal and providing an output to fire alarm sounders, and to ensure that the fire alarm signal is correctly received at any alarm receiving centre to which fire alarm signals are transmitted. It is not necessary to confirm that all fire alarm sounder circuits operate correctly at the time of this test.

b) The weekly test should be carried out at approximately the same time each week; occupants should then be instructed that they should report any instance of poor audibility of the fire alarm signal. In systems with staged alarms incorporating an “Alert” and an “Evacuate” signal, the two signals should be operated, where practicable, sequentially in the order they would occur at the time of a fire (i.e. “Alert” and then “Evacuate”).

c) In premises in which some employees only work during hours other than that at which the fire detection and fire alarm system is normally tested, an additional test(s) should be carried out at least once a month to ensure familiarity of these employees with the fire alarm signal(s).

d) A different manual call point should be used at the time of every weekly test, so that all manual call points in the building are tested in rotation over a prolonged period. There is no maximum limit for this period (e.g. in a system with 150 manual call points, the user will test each manual call point every 150 weeks). The result of the weekly test and the identity of the manual call point used should be recorded in the system logbook [see 40.2d)].

[colin todd]

Wullie, the weekly test is there simply to check that the system hasnt fallen over and died. It is not to check audibility or that the MCP has not failed. Any such things are just a bonus. Here's the plan, Bill, member of staff puts system in one man test, member of staff puts key in call point......DING A LING A LING....member of staff takes key out of call point.... total silence apart from the sound of wrinklies chomping on their tea and buns.  Job done.

[William 29]

So would you have an issue with doing the test monthly or quarterly then in flats or sheltered schemes where there are large numbers of premises if its just really to check if the system is alive?

[nearlythere]

So would you have an issue with doing the test monthly or quarterly then in flats or sheltered schemes where there are large numbers of premises if its just really to check if the system is alive?

You are going against a CoP William. But you can do the users checks when you like. It will be open to the court to determine if the frequency other than as recommended was adequate or not.

[colin todd]

I would stick to weekly Wills. Just like Nearly o' Nough says.

[Clevelandfire 3]

Should you not be checking the panel daily? ok not activ8ting a call point, but depending on size of block you should have a panel to tell you if the system is healthy.

[kurnal]

Are all these systems needed? If installed in ADB compliant blocks of flats and not a requirement it would be more cost effective to remove them than to keep testing and maintaining them in perpetuity

[Dinnertime Dave]

Needed in the sheltered schemes, but why they are in general needs flats is anyone's guess. Think we have discussed this before, more than once.

[nearlythere]

Are all these systems needed? If installed in ADB compliant blocks of flats and not a requirement it would be more cost effective to remove them than to keep testing and maintaining them in perpetuity

If you ask a dodgy fire alarm installer "do I need a fire alarm system and if so what catagory would I need"?what do you expect the answer to be?

[Dinnertime Dave]

Are all these systems needed? If installed in ADB compliant blocks of flats and not a requirement it would be more cost effective to remove them than to keep testing and maintaining them in perpetuity

If you ask a dodgy fire alarm installer "do I need a fire alarm system and if so what catagory would I need"?what do you expect the answer to be?

Clearly yes and L1.

But, I have been on courses at the fire service college and some inspecting officers answer to any problem is an L1 fire warning system.

[colin todd]

Suppers, you have not been on a course at THE fire services college, unless you took a trip to Gullane.  You simply went on a course at A fire services college somewhere in some god -forsaken area of Glucstershire.