Recent Posts

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91
Fire Safety / Re: Inner inner room
« Last post by Dinnertime Dave on March 29, 2023, 11:08:12 PM »
There are plenty of inner inner rooms out there. Radio studios, laboratories and cash offices to name just three.
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Welcome to our new members / Hi!
« Last post by Eyeball222 on March 29, 2023, 08:46:37 AM »
Morning/Evening to you ALL,
After 2 Decades on the Pumps with Scottish Fire & Rescue Service, I'm now learning the Dark Arts courtesy of Colin Todd and his merry crew.
I'm still with Scottish Fire as an FSEO and also looking to do my IFE.

Any hints, tips, pointers, interesting articles would be appreciated as every day is a school day.

Kind Regards
John
93
Fire Safety / Re: Inner inner room
« Last post by Messy on March 28, 2023, 09:12:49 AM »
This looks like a set up in a lab I was involved with where multiple lobbies were installed to control a positive pressure differential between the labs and the rest of the building. It was further complicated by a computer controlled door entry system that in 'working' mode, controlled the door locking mechanisms to ensure the doors wouldn't open until pressures were equalised. (like a canal lock gate).

The local fire safety enforcement team were a bit grumpy as they saw the plans as an inner, inner, inner room and were having little panic attacks which also resulted in a bit of professional deafness - in that they were not interested in the use of the space, any mitigations in place or any other matter. It was a triple inner room and its not happening. They also didnt like that we wouldn't let them in to view the lab for technical reasons

The strategy I compiled looked at the rationale as to why in the fire safety world inner/inner rooms are seen as high risk - ie a fire developing unseen to those in the deepest room. Then I introduced the fact we had AFD in each room and aspirating SD in the false ceiling and raised floor voids, plus overrides on each door-set that would allow escape regardless of the ambient air pressures.

The testing of the AFD was more onerous than BS 5839, we promised (but TBH rarely achieved!) 4 x fire drills per annum and introduced a policy that where detection fails in a lab, it will not be occupied  There were three identical labs and the AFD was arranged so each space was on a separate system so a fault in one, wouldn't take all 3 labs out of use. In the very unlikely circumstances that all 3 AFD systems failed, extra staff would be employed as fire watchers for the duration of the use of the one single lab.

So it was my view the MoE was protected adequately my both infrastructure and management systems - and the enforcement team reluctantly agreed

It seems like the biggest difference between my scenario and yours is that we had numerous sterile lobbies with no storage and only lighting, & door entry equipment as ignition sources. So when justifying you gowning area, you may have to show mitigation such as reducing the amount of PPE stored there or the time it is stored there etc.

Good luck
94
Fire Safety / Re: Inner inner room
« Last post by Karissa on March 28, 2023, 07:27:43 AM »
Thanks Messy

A single small room (7.5m x 5.5m) is being turned into a clean room which consists of a gowning room entrance, leading into a workspace, with another workspace off that workspace. It is labs type work, there is full AFD in all rooms, around 2-4 people in total, the main issue might be travel distance due to the layout as you could be right next to the door into the corridor but you've got to go all the way round. I can make the travel distance over 18m if I measure a very long way round. Travel distance unlikely to be less than 12m. I've attached a plan layout to help explain

Edit plan not to scale  :D
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Fire Safety / Re: Inner inner room
« Last post by Messy on March 27, 2023, 04:34:07 PM »
I have risk assessed them out in the past, but only in truly exceptional and low risk situations

Can you give a bit more info re the circumstances?
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Fire Safety / Inner inner room
« Last post by Karissa on March 27, 2023, 12:30:42 PM »
Are inner inner rooms an absolute no-no or can you risk assess it out?
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Firewise Supplies Ltd are one of the UK?s biggest online suppliers of intumescent fire and smoke seals, including acoustic, draught and weather sealing products. The website also features installation guides, inspection guides and industry news.

https://firewise.co.uk/
98
Guides and Legislation Links / Re: Legislation Scotland
« Last post by colin todd on March 05, 2023, 12:44:59 AM »
The Scottish Fire and Rescue Service are abundantly aware of the scope of their legislation and it would be rather silly to suggest anything to the contrary. Interestingly, without legislation relating to the common parts, it is virtually unknown for any resident of a PBBF in Scotland to die beyond the flat of fire origin. Nor do they need a new regulator to act as building control verifiers for high risk resi buildings (but then to be fair neither did England, its not like HSE have ever covered themselves with glory in enforcing fire safety legislation).

Those who exalt philosophy as a noble concept and scorn plumbing as a humble profession end up with the philosophy and plumbing they deserve-neither the pipes nor theories will hold water.

A society that under values, under pays, under resources and under trains local authority building control, for whom I have some respect, ends up with the standard of building control it deserves.  Maybe HSE could take on plumbing too.
99
General Interest / Re: Bradford football stadium fire
« Last post by Bill J on March 03, 2023, 09:00:17 AM »
Thanks for the "heads up" Colin,

I remember it well, I was 20 years old, had just finished my electrical apprenticeship and was installing a 64 Zone conventional Fire Alarm in nice shiny pyro when this happened, It was in a rather posh banking hall and sorting house and was taking a while to do properly.

That Monday was the first week where I did not get grief for the time & disruption.

Bill

100
General Interest / Re: Bradford football stadium fire
« Last post by Messy on March 03, 2023, 12:05:50 AM »
Thanks for that Colin.

I know my youthful looks say the opposite, but I was in the fire game then, however on holiday on the west coast of Scotland - and definitely not tuning into the news. But I caught a glimpse of the Sunday newspapers at my hotel and my first thoughts were "I wonder what country that happened in?". I was shocked to see it was the UK.

Disasters in residential homes, hotels and the London Underground are of course tragic, but the potential is always there. But an open fronted football stadium with 101 exits routes at the back??? I didnt see that one coming.

I have never listened to a podcast or know how to access one but I might break the rule for this.
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