London Fire Brigade Strikes

[jokar]

Jim, I suppose it comes down to what type and style of public authority fire brigade the public actually want.  Chatham house executives want a volunteer service that costs nothing, CFO's around the country are deliberately antagonising the FBU as when the firefighters are in dispute it saves them money.  That is playing with peoples lives however it is dressed up, it is not all the firefighters fault they are trying to protect themselves, don't we all, and trying to save a public authority fire service for the public.  My local statio had 5 appliances 10 years ago, now its one and that covers such a large area that is impossible to calculate the risk to others if they are out,

[Clevelandfire 3]

Just to say don't believe all you read in the mail - or the statistics spouted by some brigades either!

Just to put a few things right in the previous posts. The strikes are not about wage demands its about changes in conditions - i.e. the change to 12/12 shifts which may lead to pumps being removed and loss of posts (not redundancies probably as there's about to be a mass exodus following shift changes in the late 70s).

The figure of £33,200 includes London weighting that most public sector workers in London are entitled to, most police officers in London will earn more than a fire fighter; also it does take about two years to become fully trained. The pension comes after deductions of 11% from the wages for 30 years - if the money had been invested from the early years it would be a nice pot of money to pay out but unfortunately this was seen as revenue by the local authorities and spent as it came in. As for second jobs yes a lot do but then again many people could have second jobs if they were prepared to work all night, Christmas and bank holidays etc. - its still a 42 hour week whichever way you dress it up.

I only post to put a few things right; I'm not defending this strike (see my earlier post) but it is important to know the facts rather than repeat DM rhetoric.

 And? so what still doesnt warrant strike action.I dont blame  London firefighters i bklame the fbu for this suicidal strike. and for the record firefighters of london get real change in shifts isnt the end of thje world

[Golden]

And?? If you read the post I was trying to put a reality check to the DM spin I'm not asking you to agree with it but at least read it before commenting.

Yes its down to the London FBU, I think I mentioned that in an earlier post. There's also a certain local politician who thinks he's the new maggie prodding the fire fighters at every opportunity - I've heard him say what he thinks of firefighters and the FBU and those views aren't in support of LFB becoming a 'World class fire brigade'.

[colin todd]

I like the sound of this politician-who is he? I am having a birthday party next week and I would like to invite him.

[Golden]

Colin - I think you'll have heard of him but maybe just waiting for an introduction? He only thinks he's maggie - his handbag isn't actually made of iron!

Rumour on the street last night was that talks are being held today and that the LFB are going to offer a 10/14 compromise and withdraw the 188 notices. If this were true (which I don't believe) it would be a huge climb down for the LFB, the only way this would happen is if the Asset Co. fire brigade can't deliver the 27 crews on Monday as many are disillusioned after last week. The implications of a no-show by the private brigade on Monday would be huge and a few ex-brigade senior officers who have so far kept out of the limelight will be shown up as frauds and hopefully told to pack their bags.

My money is on the LFB telling the FBU that they're going to use the non-FBU members to crew fire engines which will really stoke the flames - and put a lot of people on Colin Todd's Christmas card list!

[kurnal]

In my humble opinion all this is just a tragedy for the great majority of good guys and girls in the LFB who are being led by a few politically motivated hot heads who stir up a melting pot of ill feeling at their conferences and use sledgehammer tactics which are calculated more for there political impact rather than achieving their declared aims. Thats not to say that the employers are without blame here either- far from it. Many old grudges being revisited here.

As for the shift change- obviously people get used to working a certain way and none of us likes change for changes sake, which if you look at many other brigades who have gone through this, is all it is. But can you imagine the outcry from the trade union movement in any sector if the employer was to propose changing from 12 hour shifts to 15 hour shifts?  (Personally I think 12 hour shifts are too long for anybody in any field)

[Mike Buckley]

I agree with kurnal this is a tragedy in the making. There appears to be too much political axe grinding and very little regard for the job that needs to be done.

Unfortunately the government (not just the politicians) seem to want revenge for the strikes and to run the Fire Service as a business which they understand(?) and not as a service which they don't. The unions, on the other hand, seem to want to be seen as the power house that defeats the governemnt and management.

The whole thing is a receipe for disaster with the actual job of the fire service and the public as the main victims.

Although I enjoyed my career and believed it was the best job in the world, I'm soory to say I'm glad I am out of it.

[colin todd]

Golden, Christmas is for business colleagues, pesonal friends come to my birthday party next Saturday.

Kurnal, my employer has changed my working hours such that I now start earlier in the morning and finish earlier at night. I wonder if I could join the FBU and have them fight for me. I have  to admit that my new working practices were partly driven my medical advice that I must begin to have cooked breakfasts and the local hotel stops serving these at 9am, nevertheless the early rises are making be tired and grumpy, so I want to negotiate with the management to keep to my old fashioned practices even though consultants such as Peakland howsyerfatherwatsit have been adopting them for years.

[kurnal]

Noted Colin. You have always been grumpy though, dont blame the medical advice.   I am sure the FBU would welcome you with open arms. I have always thought of you as the archetypal proletariot dictator and your employer as the unacceptable face of capitalism.

I think my invitation to your party must have been delayed in the post, sorry if I am unable to make it but lets face it you have had more practice at running birthday parties than most of us.
 
Yes probably like you I am no stranger to 7 day weeks, never  have a single days holiday completely free of work and burning midnight oil nearly every day.

But as a huge compensation its my decision to do it,  nobody is pulling my strings for purely political reasons. And if I went on strike the only person who would take any notice  would be my wife. Then I would have to start tackling the long list of DIY jobs I have been avoiding for years.

[colin todd]

Kurnal, Alas you were on the B list for invitations, and too many people on the A list, such a Galleon, were able to come. Every single one of my friends in LFEPA are coming though, along with a number of people from my second job (on which I pay tax, just in case the HRMC are reading this, and indeed accidentally overpaid this year).

[jokar]

Perhaps people need to watch the comments made by the AC Dave Brown where he states that when they are issued with new contarcts and the firefighters do not sign them, the firefighters are putting themselves out of work.  That's not being sacked then?

Colin, I take it your friends are not firefighters then.

[jokar]

What also should be remebered is that those officers who are not on strike and those firefighters have conditions of service that were fought for by FBU members in the past.  They are only there now with the sacrifices of others.  Even those at the top of the tree enjoyed and will continue to enjoy through there long retirement through conditions that the FBU got for them.

[Midland Retty]

Unfortunately the government (not just the politicians) seem to want revenge for the strikes and to run the Fire Service as a business

True, but it was the previous Labour government who sought revenge and wanted Brigades to be run as corporate machines.

The FBU's latest strike action will achieve absolutely nothing, it will only serve to damage public opinion of the brigade, and will garner little public sympathy for firefighters as a whole. It is, for my money nothing less than political suicide - ludicrous!

Resentment towards fire crews is growing not just in London but in other parts of the country as a result of the action.

I can see membership of the FBU significantly drop after this latest round of strikes - they will be leaving in their droves.

Some of my colleagues now call the FBU "the new NUM", hailing Mr Wrack as the "new Arthur Scargill". Says it all to me.

[jokar]

Yes, very true and look at the mines now.  That is it in a nutshell, break the union and no more public authority fire brigades.  Not just LFB new contracts but the rest of the UK to.  The CFO's are champing at the bit waiting to take each Brigade apart one by one.  EFRS had an agreement with their CFO who promptly broke it and then said he din't care as he was saving £10K a day and that was all he was interested in.  Forget all the stuff about public sympathy, the CFO's want to break it and start again.

[Nearlybaldandgrey]

Many services have undergone shift changes .. new start/finish times which do cause some disruption but like everything, aren't the end of the world.

I can understand the anger at the way they are being changed, but to go on strike in this day and age?

Alot of my friends outside the service really have no symapthy. Some of them are literally living week to week, not knowing if they'll have a job at all.
I was working in the motor industry during the last recession when car sales almost stopped. Payroll on a friday became known as 'the 11 o'clock express' .... if you didn't have an envelope attached to your pay packet, you had a job for at least another week. If you did, you took your toolkit home.
It was an awful experience, and I was young with no committments.

We should be grateful that we have a job.