new UKAS-accredited certification scheme for Fire Risk Assessors

[Kelsall]

There will be much more emphasis placed by UKAS on assessing the competence of employees used by CBs in the very near future. It’s an issue they have not dealt with too well in the past and that includes other accreditation bodies in Europe; hence the new focus by UKAS.

There is in reality not that many FRA guys out there with the competence to complete this type of work for CBs and investment will need to be made in training. As these newly accredited CBs will no doubt have done.

However as accredited schemes try to be objective and not subjective it is about gathering evidence not opinion. Set performance criteria for the company along with quality management procedures of the company form the basis of the office audits along with competence assessment of the individuals from the company; this differs between schemes but all CBs should be working hard on indentifying that individuals meet the industries own competence requirements.

I don't think that anyone should be worried about assessment as there is added value in it for your company; a fresh pair of eyes looking at your systems, procedures and technical content of FRAs will normally be of benefit. There are hoops to jump through yes but those hoops are what make your company an identified ‘quality assured’ company.

The value of that identification is something that the industry will need to work on and I dare say that those with certification will do their part as will trade associations and CBs. The more people talk about it the more it will be asked for and thus the cowboys will get less work. Which I think, was the intention years ago when issues were identified. 

Just a small disclaimer; third party certification is not mandatory there is no requirement for it and if you don’t have it, that doesn’t mean you are less capable of delivering a good service. It’s just that demonstrating your ability won’t be as easy as those with certification. It needs to be commercially viable for companies to have it and that pull will become stronger and stronger the more certificated firms there are.

[kurnal]

Thats a useful insight Kelsall many thanks.

[colin todd]

Kel, this is probably the most sense you have written in all the time it has been your honour to know me!! Well done. 

[Kelsall]

Col, when you are bored waiting for the 'industry' to get its act together; you have to amuse yourself somehow. Now there is activity and multiple providers the brakes should come off and things will start to move. Still a bit concerned about the RP document but we will have to wait and see on that one.

I think you are a ‘shoe in’ for the info4fire top 40 influencers in the fire sector; if you send me a copy of your own self nomination, I’ll paraphrase it and send one in too! 
 

[Tom Sutton]

We now have a least two TPCB’s when they certify an organisation they will ensure the principle FR assessor will be competent with the power to sign off a FRA. Also he/she will also have to have in place procedures, training and retraining to ensure his minions FR assessors are competent but they will not be certified, only the organisation. Therefore nothing has changed for the individual FR assessor to confirm their competence other than to be on a FRA register and maybe be able to say I am a member of a certificated organisation.

How does the individual FR assessor have documented proof of their competence?

[kurnal]

SP205 is purely and simply a company scheme. It is not intended to apply to individuals except in respect of their contribution to the competence of the company. Under the SP205 scheme the principal risk assessor responsible for signing off assessments and a number of employees and associates are  sampled - the SP205 process will include desk top assessments and accompanying one or more other employees whilst carrying out an assessment. They will sample the square root of the the total number of employees or assessors. If I employ 4 associates 2 will be reviewed.

The existing registers for individual assessors will continue. The IFSM register now requires all candidates to go through the FRACS system for individuals.

[William 29]

The existing registers for individual assessors will continue. The IFSM register now requires all candidates to go through the FRACS system for individuals.

Hi Kurnal, it is my undertanding that individuals that work for or that are sub contracted via an SP205 certificated Company will be able to apply to go on the IFSM new NAFRAR risk assessors register.  As it states below from their site the individual needs to demonstate they have been through a scheme with UKAS approval.  It states "applicant" which implies an individual when as you correctly say SP205 is a company scheme and not for individuals which is slightly confusing.  I have been informed that if a company gains SP205 certification then any individuals that company uses and have been through the company's approved SP205 internal audit process can apply to go on the NAFRAR register.

http://www.ifsm.org.uk/nafrar/nafrar%20guidance%20notes%20-%20Nov%202011.pdf


Recognition of Appropriate Accreditation and Certification Schemes

The Institute will recognise, for the purposes of entering applicants onto its NAFRAR, any scheme that carries UKAS approval and / or which follows BS EN ISO 17024 and also BS EN 45011. .....

[William 29]

I should have added to the above that in the situation I have described although the individuals name will be listed on NAFRAR it will be clear that they are linked to the BAFE SP205 certificated company in question and not a sole trader.

[Kelsall]

SP205 is purely and simply a company scheme. It is not intended to apply to individuals except in respect of their contribution to the competence of the company. Under the SP205 scheme the principal risk assessor responsible for signing off assessments and a number of employees and associates are  sampled - the SP205 process will include desk top assessments and accompanying one or more other employees whilst carrying out an assessment. They will sample the square root of the the total number of employees or assessors. If I employ 4 associates 2 will be reviewed.

The existing registers for individual assessors will continue. The IFSM register now requires all candidates to go through the FRACS system for individuals.

Hi Kurnal

I can't see that formula in the SP 205 standard. “Square route of the total number”

I thought it was at the discretion of the CB and some will use the appearance on existing registers as a grandfather clause. i.e. if you are on the IFE, IFPO or IFSM register you are deemed competent and no additional assessment is made. I think there will be variation from each CB and that’s a concern for me. But if they are accredited to 45011 the scheme will stand up and you will technically be getting the same assessment from each CB.

I would be interested to hear if anyone has had multiple quotes for SP205 was there variation in the assessment requirements from the CBs. I may be wrong in my assumptions so I would genuinely like to know if CBs are operating differently under this scheme.

[kurnal]

I was told that personally by one of the CBs but I dont know if it is the same for all.

[Tom Sutton]

Thanks kurnal for your confirmation that it is a company scheme I assume similar to SP101 and SP 203 and have they proved successful?

As for the individual FR assessor they will still have to rely on the FRA registers and do we know which registers use the Competency Criteria for Fire Risk Assessors as a syllabus to select for inclusion in their register.

[Kelsall]

Thanks kurnal for your confirmation that it is a company scheme I assume similar to SP101 and SP 203 and have they proved successful?

As for the individual FR assessor they will still have to rely on the FRA registers and do we know which registers use the Competency Criteria for Fire Risk Assessors as a syllabus to select for inclusion in their register.

FRACS and it is UKAS accredited against ISO 17024

[Will Lloyd]

As I’m sure you are all aware ECA Certification Ltd were part of the pilot scheme for BAFE SP205
I am pleased to announce that ECA Certification Ltd has received its UKAS Accreditation for BAFE SP205
This brings the list of CB’s offering SP205 to Three

If you would like further information, please contact ECA Certification Ltd via email certification@eca.co.uk or telephone 0333 321 8220

Will Lloyd
BAFE Scheme  Manager
ECA Certification Ltd

[Tom Sutton]

FRACS and it is UKAS accredited against ISO 17024

I was thinking of a new SP 205 - x that produces registration boards, using the Competency Criteria for Fire Risk Assessors as a syllabus and certify individual fire risk assessors which are then placed on a certified register.

[Will Lloyd]

I will be seeking proposals from each of the certification bodies  FRACS, SSAIB, NSI and as soon as their scheme is announced the ECA. I wish to be one of the first companies to achieve accreditation under FRACS or under SP205.

One aspect that concerns me is this. How can I be sure that the person who comes to assess my company has full competence to understand and appreciate the technical aspects of fire risk assessment? As far as I am aware the UKAS accreditation that each provider must achieve is essentially a systems and quality management audit but cannot measure the CBs technical understanding of the subject.

It has taken me 39 years in the industry with continuing study and research to achieve my current level of incompetence.

How can I be sure that the SP205 assessor will have sufficient experience and knowledge to understand the issues rather than hugging the codes?

I guess it comes down to this.
Are the SP205 assessors experienced fire risk assessors who have been trained in audit or are they auditors who have been trained in fire risk assessment?

And are all SP205 Certification Bodies the same in this respect?

The ECA Assessors are experienced fire risk assessors trained to assess to the scheme and our standards not the other way round
its ECA Certification policy to take good competent people and train them to assess what they do. This gives us a real world point view and gives our clients the confidence in our assessments be it FRA, fire alarms, MCS, Part P or Electrical.