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Author Topic: Exit Signage  (Read 44675 times)

Offline Richard Earl

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Exit Signage
« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2007, 09:17:13 PM »
as jim said the regulations clearly state the meaning of the arrow on the signs i cant see any problem. if anyone has a problem then call me or email me

richard.earl@tecservuk.com

after fitting signs for the last 6 years i cant understand why anyone has a problem. only in very very complex sites may a small problem come along but not one of which way do i put an arrow or what sign to use?????????

chat to you all on email soon i hope
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Offline afterburner

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Exit Signage
« Reply #31 on: January 24, 2007, 11:50:12 AM »
Kurnal, your observations concerning the misuse of directional signs is as common in Scotland as anywhere else in the U.K.
Have you seen this link http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6274213.stm which involves the PC 'sexing' of the signs ... so once we've got the arrows sorted, next comes the sex evidently!
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Offline Ryan

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Exit Signage
« Reply #32 on: January 24, 2007, 07:35:44 PM »
Thats a pathetic way to 'encourage' men to go out with their children, a sign doesn't influence people usually. No one has any objections now to 'men' on the fire exit signs, or maybe they are bald women. Who knows. As I said before, a worldwide sign code would be the easiest way.
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Offline Jim Creak

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Exit Signage
« Reply #33 on: January 25, 2007, 07:58:40 AM »
Here we go again, a serious subject, serious problems out there in the community, significant risk and a senior member of this forum making remarks that if taken seriously completely undermines the integrity of competent advice. What is this forum for? If you want to act like children why not have a little chat on MSN Messenger or Text one another.

Again if you wish to take the subject seriously, An International Standard is a worldwide specification Mr Wigley!!! and Yes Yes Yes  Great thought was given to the needs of the Disabled in the revision of the Standard BS5499 Part 4 both in using sentence text for people with learning difficulties, viewing distances safety factors for imperfect vision and recognition detail. Plus if and when required a determinant for mobility impaired. We drew short on Braile becaused we felt the needs of the acutely blind would be better dealt with by a PEEP. (You can ask the question if you do not understand this expression.) Call yourselves professional????

As far as the colour of the graphical symbol is concerned the colour of the Man in the Standard is GREEN which shows even more that you have no competence to comment and  I also find your remarks extremely distasteful , certainly not funny, if you were intimating racial prejudice?
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Offline afterburner

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Exit Signage
« Reply #34 on: January 25, 2007, 08:21:17 AM »
The 'wayfinder' seems to bring the red arrow back into use after all the effort to show safe conditions through green / white colour combinations. If the fire alarm causes these signs to operate are they in addition to the existing signs or intended to replace them?
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Offline Jim Creak

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Exit Signage
« Reply #35 on: January 25, 2007, 11:25:49 AM »
Thank you for the apology. It is accepted.
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Offline Nearlybaldandgrey

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Exit Signage
« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2007, 11:35:29 AM »
Excuse my ignorance, but isn't the image on an exit sign referred to as a "running person"?

No that's got to be PC as there is no reference to sex, race, gender etc etc....
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Offline Jim Creak

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Exit Signage
« Reply #37 on: January 25, 2007, 01:21:09 PM »
No where absolutely no where in either the International Standard nor British Standard does it refer to running man nor anything similar as definition nor expression.  

Where has this expression come from?? Just this forum?

The only running man symbol I am aware of are on the so called EURO sign which has absolutely no comprehensability credentials at all and is not in any recognised Standard.

 Yet again we have a comment that illustrates the lack of basic understanding regarding escape route signing, egress direction and evacuation route marking.

I make no apology for treating this subject seriously.
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Offline PhilHallmark

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Exit Signage
« Reply #38 on: January 25, 2007, 02:25:40 PM »
Quote from: Jim Creak
No where absolutely no where in either the International Standard nor British Standard does it refer to running man nor anything similar as definition nor expression.  

Where has this expression come from?? Just this forum?

The only running man symbol I am aware of are on the so called EURO sign which has absolutely no comprehensability credentials at all and is not in any recognised Standard.

 Yet again we have a comment that illustrates the lack of basic understanding regarding escape route signing, egress direction and evacuation route marking.

I make no apology for treating this subject seriously.
The "Running Man" terminology is a common phrase throughout many directives and recommendation publications including your own excellent MoE I expect.

This is not a problem within the scope of this debate. I see the problem, and I believe this is in total agreement with your own views Jim, that the lack of understanding throughout industry of the correct type of both designs is perhaps the main issue. This with the lack of educated understanding of the correct signage is a huge issue throughout: from certain manufacturers' own (signs) advice to end user "experts" who the general public and employees rely on for their fire safety. Most of whom have been through H&S or RA courses and have not been correctly informed.
As an earlier post noted: even the HSE information is vague; and this is a starting point for many training providers.
This issue should have been cleared some time ago when 92/58/EEC was borne. The H& S Regs (Sign & Signals) state the same Minimum requirements:92/58 requirements, and thus the Euro Type was borne and accepted.
I have had debates over BS or EC Directive or H&S Regs and the same reply seems to come back - "which is my legal requirement? or thats what my RA needs and advises - H&S Regs. And thats what I will stick to."
Regardless of practicalities or suitability or test evidence.
Its will be a major feat to change that mindset.
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Offline kurnal

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Exit Signage
« Reply #39 on: January 25, 2007, 03:16:06 PM »
Hi Jim
Thanks for sticking with the debate-I think we are getting somewhere and your continued involvement is appreciated. Just to clear one thing up-on this forum a senior member has just posted more than 200 messages , and a prinipal member more than 600. Theres no hierarchy in terms of the quality of those postings. Wee B tells me most of mine are garbage and I often have to agree with him....having slept on it  the next day.
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Offline kurnal

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Exit Signage
« Reply #40 on: January 25, 2007, 04:07:54 PM »
On the colour of pictograms it used to be permissible to invert the colour schemes in some circumstances- for example where there is a green wall it was permissible to invert the green and white portions of the safety sign provided the green parts made up at least 50% of the area of the sign. Is this still relevant?
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Offline PhilHallmark

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Exit Signage
« Reply #41 on: January 25, 2007, 05:18:33 PM »
Quote from: kurnal
On the colour of pictograms it used to be permissible to invert the colour schemes in some circumstances- for example where there is a green wall it was permissible to invert the green and white portions of the safety sign provided the green parts made up at least 50% of the area of the sign. Is this still relevant?
The Health & Safety (Signs & Signals) Regulations 1996 state:

 "1.    Intrinsic features

    1.1.  The shape and colours of signboards are set out in paragraph 3, in accordance with their specific object (signboards indicating a prohibition, a warning, a mandatory action, an escape route, an emergency or fire-fighting equipment)."

The instrinsic colour for exit signs is green. Which indicates the main colour i.e. background colour is green, therefore no change can be made to these regulations: white object/text on green background.

Of course you could carry out your own design schedule as the hotelier has been pointed out in another thread - extinguishers painted the same colour as the walls, but take note of the comments posted regarding that idea. Not the best of ideas.
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Offline kurnal

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Exit Signage
« Reply #42 on: January 25, 2007, 06:53:25 PM »
My last posting was actually current information  taken from the official latest textbook for the NEBOSH general certificate exam in Occupational Health and Safety. The fire exit sign illustrated as an example of good practice is the dreaded r*****g m*n- then the next sign to illustrate Means of escape (it says) is the BS5499 version. Still just the fire consultants/ Officers / BCOs  fault that theres confusion?
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Offline Tom Sutton

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« Reply #43 on: January 25, 2007, 08:03:06 PM »
I accept the International and British Standard on fire exit signs except the directional arrow. I was in the local shopping centre and took note of the fire exit signs which had the graphical symbol, the supplementary text (Emergency Fire Exit) and an arrow pointing downwards to the door you had to pass through. Although this is incorrect it made more sense to me than the arrow pointing to the ceiling, indicating what, unless you are familiar with Standards.
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All my responses only apply to England and Wales and they are an overview of the subject, hopefully it will point you in the right direction and always treat with caution.

Offline Richard Earl

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Exit Signage
« Reply #44 on: January 25, 2007, 10:14:02 PM »
Quote from: twsutton
I accept the International and British Standard on fire exit signs except the directional arrow. I was in the local shopping centre and took note of the fire exit signs which had the graphical symbol, the supplementary text (Emergency Fire Exit) and an arrow pointing downwards to the door you had to pass through. Although this is incorrect it made more sense to me than the arrow pointing to the ceiling, indicating what, unless you are familiar with Standards.
well its like a set of traffic lights u dont go down you go straight on!!!!!!   the ARROW is UP not down!!!!!  what the H**l is the problem i cant se any with bs signs

must just be me ( only been fitting them for 7 years )

i recommend you all contact jim at jaylite and go on a workshop

even my wife nows the diffrence and she works with kids not even in the flipping industry!!!!!!!!!
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