Poll

What do Firenetters feel about Regional Fire Controls?

In principle they are a good idea
6 (23.1%)
They are a bad idea
17 (65.4%)
Indifferent / Not sure
3 (11.5%)

Total Members Voted: 25

Author Topic: Regional Fire Controls  (Read 31410 times)

Midland Retty

  • Guest
Regional Fire Controls
« on: January 20, 2009, 04:56:52 PM »
What do you think about Regional Fire Controls? Post your poll / vote here.
The options on the poll dont allow you to expand on why you may or may not like the issues of Regional Controls in detail, but you can expland by posting a comment in the main thread below.

This is not a barbed question and I have no motives, other than curiosity, to find out what people think about Regionalised Fire Control Centres

Offline afterburner

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 488
Re: Regional Fire Controls
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2009, 09:55:28 AM »
a wee bit difficult this one Retty. My memory of the superb service consistently delivered by a Brigade level control room colours my opinion in comparison with some unknown outcome. The fears of service 'drop' are easliy counted, but whether these fears would actually affect the primary functions will only become clear once one (or several) of the Regional Controls becomes operative.
I have this horrible worry that we won't know for sure until after the 'lick and see' exercise. 

Offline Mr. P

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 685
Re: Regional Fire Controls
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2009, 11:11:22 AM »
I understand 'they' are looking having a 'supersize' one at Waterbeach, Cambridge.

Offline Mike Buckley

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1045
Re: Regional Fire Controls
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2009, 12:05:36 PM »
When I was in the service I was project officer on the upgrading of the brigade's control room in one of the shire birgades, in fact the project came up with the solution that enabled regionalisation of control rooms.

One of the factors that we looked at was the efficiency of the control staff, I am not referring to how well they did their job which in line with all the control staff I have worked with, was of the highest standard. It was the number of calls handled per operator. We established the minimum number of staff we needed to be on duty which was three. One to handle the incoming call, one to handle the radio and one to supervise. Working on the usual crewing formula that allowed for leave, training, meal breaks etc. we needed 5 per watch. I worked out a comparison between the number of calls handled per operator in our brigade verses the number of calls handled by a operator in London and not surprisingly the London operator handled far more calls than ours did. We did look at several solutions to this one was to combine our control with that of the Ambulance service and another was to combine with neighbouring brigades. The reason these initiatives failed was political the chief officers did not want to lose 'their' control rooms, the ambulance service failed when a chief officer went on record stating that the fire brigade should take over the ambulances. The system we deployed was capable of doing both these roles and for a period we did work an arrangement with another brigade where our emergency control would be set up in their control room and their control could run our brigade whilst our staff evacuated to their control to take back the function. It worked in exercises, fortunately it never had to be put into action for real.

The principal is sound and there are obvious financial advantages for non metropolitan brigades.

The argument about local knowledge is a red herring in that ever since the days of phoning or running to the local fire station controls have always relied on some type of database whether paper or computer based to mobilise the correct attendance. Mistakes have happened given the number of 'High Streets' or 'Church Lanes' they are inevitable but these happen regardless of the size of the brigade.

What does concern me is the reason and the way the regionalisation project is being run. The background seems to have more of a political agenda rather than the practical one and the government's track record of this type of project is not good.
The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to those who think they've found it.

Offline Psuedonym

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 315
Re: Regional Fire Controls
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2009, 09:29:06 PM »
All current staff have to sign the OS Act, the political agenda remark is extremely relevant. There is another element which is to be based within these centres which makes them a convenient and secure regional base for them. Sorry guys I've been told more but best not expand.
The Control Centres are all built except the London unit which has just been begun construction. They are all the same size i.e. no supersize units and all currently manned only by the facilities company and security staff. By the time London is handed over the others will be due a refurb.
Ansul R102 Kitchen Suppression Enthusiast


Created using refurbished electrons to ensure I do my bit to save the planet...Polar bear cubs saved so far:2.75. Reduced due to effects of Carbon Footprint on the carpet. It's a bugger to shift...

Offline John Webb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 838
Re: Regional Fire Controls
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2009, 09:53:55 PM »
It does concern me that for the sake of apparently using staff more efficiently, and thereby hopefully saving money, we are putting all our eggs in seven baskets, rather than resources distributed evenly about the counties.
So if some nasty-minded persons want to knock out the FRS controls, they only need 7 lots of explosives rather 40 or so.....?

I am certain I've read in the past year that this is the major reason that the Police have refused to have regional controls rather than force-based controls. And they handle far more calls than the FRS....
With modern communications I fail to see why a distributed system (ie closely linked county FRS controls) cannot be efficient and much more resilient under serious incident conditions (or even positive attack) than seven regional controls.

I stress this is very much a personal viewpoint!
John Webb
Consultant on Fire Safety, Diocese of St Albans
(Views expressed are my own)

Offline Clevelandfire 3

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 566
Re: Regional Fire Controls
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2009, 12:08:01 AM »
I have never known terrorists attempting to take out Brigade controls or resources in the UK. It is pretty low in the pecking order. Terrorists would have bigger targets in mind. Fire service operations would be fairly insignificant during terrorist attacks anyway and there is little point in attacking brigade resources because they will normally have reserve centres which could operate in case of main control centre failure.
 

Offline Psuedonym

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 315
Re: Regional Fire Controls
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2009, 11:35:13 AM »
It does concern me that for the sake of apparently using staff more efficiently, and thereby hopefully saving money, we are putting all our eggs in seven baskets, rather than resources distributed evenly about the counties.
So if some nasty-minded persons want to knock out the FRS controls, they only need 7 lots of explosives rather 40 or so.....?

I am certain I've read in the past year that this is the major reason that the Police have refused to have regional controls rather than force-based controls. And they handle far more calls than the FRS....
With modern communications I fail to see why a distributed system (ie closely linked county FRS controls) cannot be efficient and much more resilient under serious incident conditions (or even positive attack) than seven regional controls.

I stress this is very much a personal viewpoint!

How about "Modernisation?" (cutbacks) for justification (must be saving some money somewhere - jobs, property costs etc?) or lack of current sufficient security for the must have bomb proof inner core et al?  ::)
Ansul R102 Kitchen Suppression Enthusiast


Created using refurbished electrons to ensure I do my bit to save the planet...Polar bear cubs saved so far:2.75. Reduced due to effects of Carbon Footprint on the carpet. It's a bugger to shift...

Offline kurnal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6489
    • http://www.peakland-fire-safety.co.uk
Re: Regional Fire Controls
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2009, 10:15:50 PM »
Whats happening with the regional control project? Heard a rumour that the projects have been put on hold and some teams downscaled pending the next election when the project will quietly be ditched. Any truth in this do you think? Any projects online yet or near to completion?

Offline nearlythere

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4351
Re: Regional Fire Controls
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2009, 11:13:47 PM »
Reg control was pie in the sky. Anyone who supports it deserves it. Me? If I call the FB I want they to come to my house as soon as possible, because the controllers in my area know where I am.
But hows about a two tier call out system system?
Local control costing £?? per month or Prescott Control - free ?? (Don't forget that he's the goon responsible for it).
Which one would you trust?
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Offline Mike Buckley

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1045
Re: Regional Fire Controls
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2009, 11:22:45 PM »
Only news I have heard is that my local one at Castle Donnington has been delayed and will not open for a couple of years. Usual government project over budget and behind schedule.

Cue jokes: What is an elephant?    A mouse built to government specifications.
The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to those who think they've found it.

Midland Retty

  • Guest
Re: Regional Fire Controls
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2009, 10:45:44 AM »
The regional fire control project is still going ahead, The Midlands region goes live very soon.


Offline FSO

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 216
Re: Regional Fire Controls
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2009, 11:24:24 AM »
Whats happening with the regional control project? Heard a rumour that the projects have been put on hold and some teams downscaled pending the next election when the project will quietly be ditched. Any truth in this do you think? Any projects online yet or near to completion?

I have heard that too Kurnal.

It would appear that the likely next PM is dead against the idea.

Davo

  • Guest
Re: Regional Fire Controls
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2009, 12:27:09 PM »
Prof

The one here will 'not be operational until 2011'
(Nice building, wonder if they'd sell?)

davo

Offline Davo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1144
Re: Regional Fire Controls
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2010, 07:31:04 PM »
I see from the news today Ministers are still keen to do this...........


davo